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	<title>Comments on: PARK(ing) Day Post-Op</title>
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	<link>http://spovangelist.com/parking-day-post-op/</link>
	<description>A mid-sized city miracle!</description>
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		<title>By: Earth Turners Convergence</title>
		<link>http://spovangelist.com/parking-day-post-op/comment-page-1/#comment-11024</link>
		<dc:creator>Earth Turners Convergence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Mar 2010 05:31:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spovangelist.com/?p=748#comment-11024</guid>
		<description>[...] for its innovative &#8220;youth-lead&#8221; approach, which has resulted in projects as small as PARK(ing) Day and as large as Sustainable [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] for its innovative &#8220;youth-lead&#8221; approach, which has resulted in projects as small as PARK(ing) Day and as large as Sustainable [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chicken Sh@#</title>
		<link>http://spovangelist.com/parking-day-post-op/comment-page-1/#comment-9310</link>
		<dc:creator>Chicken Sh@#</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 20:39:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spovangelist.com/?p=748#comment-9310</guid>
		<description>[...] his upcoming show partner, while bringing vegetables to the Youth Sustainability Council&#8217;s PARK(ing) Day display. Remis was busy making grass cut outs and web-like cradles in front of the Saranac Art [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] his upcoming show partner, while bringing vegetables to the Youth Sustainability Council&#8217;s PARK(ing) Day display. Remis was busy making grass cut outs and web-like cradles in front of the Saranac Art [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Contrarian</title>
		<link>http://spovangelist.com/parking-day-post-op/comment-page-1/#comment-7393</link>
		<dc:creator>Contrarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 03:20:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spovangelist.com/?p=748#comment-7393</guid>
		<description>Jon wrote,

&quot;As someone who has studied New Urbanism, i am rather confused as to the content in your link. Anti-socialist hyperbole aside, the author seems to link New Urbanist studies to a Corbusian take on urban design, when it would probably be more accurate to say that New Urbanist thought, at least in the United States, has substantially more to do with the works of Christopher Alexander and Leon Krier . . .&quot;

Oh, sure. Utopian visions, and the theories detailing how to achieve those visions, come and go. At the moment Corbusier is &quot;out&quot; and Alexander in &quot;in.&quot; What they all share, however, is a fundamental misconception regarding the determinants of observable patterns of human settlement, and a certain conceit. The misconception is that there is a set of timeless and static principles which yield optimum patterns. But there isn&#039;t; indeed the optimum pattern is always state-dependent: it is the pattern generated by the particular values of the variables operating at the moment. Since those variables and their values are unpredictable, every algorithmic approach is bound to yield non-optimum solutions.

The patterns that planners, including New Urbanists, deem optimal are patterns that emerged under a given set of informational, economic and technological constraints. Whenever any of those constraints change, the patterns are no longer optimum.

The conceit, of course, is the planner&#039;s conviction that they, having been schooled in the current Utopian dogmas, are qualified and entitled to impose the patterns they favor on communities by force.

&quot;Also, please remind me why a celebration of people and urban space has anything to do with New Urbanism and/or socialism.&quot;

Well, Jon, because &quot;liberating&quot; a parking space is the symbolic banishment of the automobile from the urban scene. And the automobile is the Great Destroyer of the archaic patterns New Urbanists idolize.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon wrote,</p>
<p>&#8220;As someone who has studied New Urbanism, i am rather confused as to the content in your link. Anti-socialist hyperbole aside, the author seems to link New Urbanist studies to a Corbusian take on urban design, when it would probably be more accurate to say that New Urbanist thought, at least in the United States, has substantially more to do with the works of Christopher Alexander and Leon Krier . . .&#8221;</p>
<p>Oh, sure. Utopian visions, and the theories detailing how to achieve those visions, come and go. At the moment Corbusier is &#8220;out&#8221; and Alexander in &#8220;in.&#8221; What they all share, however, is a fundamental misconception regarding the determinants of observable patterns of human settlement, and a certain conceit. The misconception is that there is a set of timeless and static principles which yield optimum patterns. But there isn&#8217;t; indeed the optimum pattern is always state-dependent: it is the pattern generated by the particular values of the variables operating at the moment. Since those variables and their values are unpredictable, every algorithmic approach is bound to yield non-optimum solutions.</p>
<p>The patterns that planners, including New Urbanists, deem optimal are patterns that emerged under a given set of informational, economic and technological constraints. Whenever any of those constraints change, the patterns are no longer optimum.</p>
<p>The conceit, of course, is the planner&#8217;s conviction that they, having been schooled in the current Utopian dogmas, are qualified and entitled to impose the patterns they favor on communities by force.</p>
<p>&#8220;Also, please remind me why a celebration of people and urban space has anything to do with New Urbanism and/or socialism.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, Jon, because &#8220;liberating&#8221; a parking space is the symbolic banishment of the automobile from the urban scene. And the automobile is the Great Destroyer of the archaic patterns New Urbanists idolize.</p>
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		<title>By: jon</title>
		<link>http://spovangelist.com/parking-day-post-op/comment-page-1/#comment-7385</link>
		<dc:creator>jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 22:09:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spovangelist.com/?p=748#comment-7385</guid>
		<description>Contrarian,

As someone who has studied New Urbanism, i am rather confused as to the content in your link.  Anti-socialist hyperbole aside, the author seems to link New Urbanist studies to a Corbusian take on urban design, when it would probably be more accurate to say that New Urbanist thought, at least in the United States, has substantially more to do with the works of Christopher Alexander and Leon Krier, than it does a Swiss architect who was looking at how to infill European cities that were bombed to near total destruction.  Also, i would point to the Garden City movement of the turn of the century more so than to the planning policies of Eastern Bloc nations during the Cold War.

If anything, New Urbanism is seen as an antithesis of Corbuian Modernism in both design and planning.

Also, please remind me why a celebration of people and urban space has anything to do with New Urbanism and/or socialism.


This is New Urbanism:

Congress for New Urbanism - http://www.cnu.org/

Pattern Language (works of Christopher Alexander)-
http://www.patternlanguage.com/

Leon Krier - http://www.patternlanguage.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Contrarian,</p>
<p>As someone who has studied New Urbanism, i am rather confused as to the content in your link.  Anti-socialist hyperbole aside, the author seems to link New Urbanist studies to a Corbusian take on urban design, when it would probably be more accurate to say that New Urbanist thought, at least in the United States, has substantially more to do with the works of Christopher Alexander and Leon Krier, than it does a Swiss architect who was looking at how to infill European cities that were bombed to near total destruction.  Also, i would point to the Garden City movement of the turn of the century more so than to the planning policies of Eastern Bloc nations during the Cold War.</p>
<p>If anything, New Urbanism is seen as an antithesis of Corbuian Modernism in both design and planning.</p>
<p>Also, please remind me why a celebration of people and urban space has anything to do with New Urbanism and/or socialism.</p>
<p>This is New Urbanism:</p>
<p>Congress for New Urbanism &#8211; <a href="http://www.cnu.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.cnu.org/</a></p>
<p>Pattern Language (works of Christopher Alexander)-<br />
<a href="http://www.patternlanguage.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.patternlanguage.com/</a></p>
<p>Leon Krier &#8211; <a href="http://www.patternlanguage.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.patternlanguage.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dazzeetrader</title>
		<link>http://spovangelist.com/parking-day-post-op/comment-page-1/#comment-7380</link>
		<dc:creator>Dazzeetrader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:30:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spovangelist.com/?p=748#comment-7380</guid>
		<description>At last count, there are 27 neighborhoods in Spokane. Half or more have Community Centers. More wonderful parks in Spokane per capita than any city I know of.  Normally though, &quot;public open spaces&quot; aren&#039;t defined by the asphalt in the street in front of someone&#039;s business. Taken to its extreme, I suppose some might define open space as the air. Spokane has plenty of sidewalks too.

I&#039;d think there are plenty of other ways to bring awareness to community. Division and Sprague are business streets much the same as Amsterdam is here in NYC. It&#039;s where traffic and businesses go to do.......well...business. Not too pretty anywhere but it&#039;s where business gets done. Riverside, Main, Monroe, Courthouse District etc  in Spokane qualify as well.

I suppose if a group of people want pretty and quiet, they could move to a smaller city with trees and roses everywhere. I&#039;d prefer that but the feel of a real city would be gone. How does one capture both? Commuter roads....!!! We need em!  Ask Kitty! Plenty of those might be used to let a citizen live out a bit and still function in a city that does business. It&#039;s an idea as American as apple pie. Some of my remarks are facetious of course..but some aren&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At last count, there are 27 neighborhoods in Spokane. Half or more have Community Centers. More wonderful parks in Spokane per capita than any city I know of.  Normally though, &#8220;public open spaces&#8221; aren&#8217;t defined by the asphalt in the street in front of someone&#8217;s business. Taken to its extreme, I suppose some might define open space as the air. Spokane has plenty of sidewalks too.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d think there are plenty of other ways to bring awareness to community. Division and Sprague are business streets much the same as Amsterdam is here in NYC. It&#8217;s where traffic and businesses go to do&#8230;&#8230;.well&#8230;business. Not too pretty anywhere but it&#8217;s where business gets done. Riverside, Main, Monroe, Courthouse District etc  in Spokane qualify as well.</p>
<p>I suppose if a group of people want pretty and quiet, they could move to a smaller city with trees and roses everywhere. I&#8217;d prefer that but the feel of a real city would be gone. How does one capture both? Commuter roads&#8230;.!!! We need em!  Ask Kitty! Plenty of those might be used to let a citizen live out a bit and still function in a city that does business. It&#8217;s an idea as American as apple pie. Some of my remarks are facetious of course..but some aren&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Lego</title>
		<link>http://spovangelist.com/parking-day-post-op/comment-page-1/#comment-7378</link>
		<dc:creator>Lego</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 15:12:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spovangelist.com/?p=748#comment-7378</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think the idea here is to rail against cars or to harass businesses. The idea is to bring awareness about open public spaces. 

Hopefully this awareness leads people to speak up in favor of and design places where the community can interact.  Places like community centers, parks, walkable streets etc. Places that make Brownes Addition, Downtown, and the South Hill nice places to walk and or drive through. The counter examples are the areas of Spokane like Division and Sprague that I&#039;m usually embarrassed to show to out of town relatives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think the idea here is to rail against cars or to harass businesses. The idea is to bring awareness about open public spaces. </p>
<p>Hopefully this awareness leads people to speak up in favor of and design places where the community can interact.  Places like community centers, parks, walkable streets etc. Places that make Brownes Addition, Downtown, and the South Hill nice places to walk and or drive through. The counter examples are the areas of Spokane like Division and Sprague that I&#8217;m usually embarrassed to show to out of town relatives.</p>
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		<title>By: Contrarian</title>
		<link>http://spovangelist.com/parking-day-post-op/comment-page-1/#comment-7368</link>
		<dc:creator>Contrarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 03:38:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spovangelist.com/?p=748#comment-7368</guid>
		<description>Well, Daisy, the purpose setting out a few potted plants in a parking space for a day is to illustrate how wonderful life would be if all those horribly liberating automobiles could be banished, and everyone was forced to walk wherever they wanted to go. Or if they had a politically acceptable reason for venturing further than a few blocks from their assigned cells --- er, quarters --- they could use the official, government-run transit system.

Automobiles are antisocial, you see. They allow people to go where they wish to go, when they wish to go there. They also permit them to choose the routes they will travel and their traveling companions, and to live where they wish to live. And that cannot be permitted, because history has shown that if they are allowed such freedoms many of them will abandon the huddled tenements of the city and choose less dense, more private, more spacious accomodations than government planners think they need. Such freedoms undermine the planners&#039; Utopias and the government&#039;s control over their lives. And no government tolerates that for long.

Promoters of &quot;New Urbanism&quot; (which is really old urbanism, of course) should check out this latest post on Randall O&#039;Toole&#039;s blog:

http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=1872#more-1872</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, Daisy, the purpose setting out a few potted plants in a parking space for a day is to illustrate how wonderful life would be if all those horribly liberating automobiles could be banished, and everyone was forced to walk wherever they wanted to go. Or if they had a politically acceptable reason for venturing further than a few blocks from their assigned cells &#8212; er, quarters &#8212; they could use the official, government-run transit system.</p>
<p>Automobiles are antisocial, you see. They allow people to go where they wish to go, when they wish to go there. They also permit them to choose the routes they will travel and their traveling companions, and to live where they wish to live. And that cannot be permitted, because history has shown that if they are allowed such freedoms many of them will abandon the huddled tenements of the city and choose less dense, more private, more spacious accomodations than government planners think they need. Such freedoms undermine the planners&#8217; Utopias and the government&#8217;s control over their lives. And no government tolerates that for long.</p>
<p>Promoters of &#8220;New Urbanism&#8221; (which is really old urbanism, of course) should check out this latest post on Randall O&#8217;Toole&#8217;s blog:</p>
<p><a href="http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=1872#more-1872" rel="nofollow">http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=1872#more-1872</a></p>
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		<title>By: The Exiled Chairman of the Peoples State of Spotucky</title>
		<link>http://spovangelist.com/parking-day-post-op/comment-page-1/#comment-7362</link>
		<dc:creator>The Exiled Chairman of the Peoples State of Spotucky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 20:49:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spovangelist.com/?p=748#comment-7362</guid>
		<description>Dazzeetrader brings up a good point. Was there any dialog between the businesses who complained prior to parking day? Was this spot picked specifically because it was in front of a major chain?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dazzeetrader brings up a good point. Was there any dialog between the businesses who complained prior to parking day? Was this spot picked specifically because it was in front of a major chain?</p>
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		<title>By: Dazzeetrader</title>
		<link>http://spovangelist.com/parking-day-post-op/comment-page-1/#comment-7351</link>
		<dc:creator>Dazzeetrader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 03:02:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spovangelist.com/?p=748#comment-7351</guid>
		<description>Yes...very &quot;art&quot;ful John. So I wonder what the purpose would be? I wonder why some group would squat in front of a commercial business in a parking space? Is there a purpose? Let&#039;s see...there must be a reason. Did the police come to evaluate? Who revokes permits in Spokane? Or maybe the better question is : who would  request/give a permit for a parking spot to be inhabitated by anything but a car/truck.? Or maybe it&#039;s just something to do on a sunny afternoon. Perhaps someone just wanted to be &quot;unique&quot; and be seen? Or somone wanted to copy what&#039;s done in a different city? Or..or ..or...I wonder on what grounds the permit was given/revoked? It just seems so odd... to pick something like this to do.....maybe it&#039;s just me... funny  though.......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes&#8230;very &#8220;art&#8221;ful John. So I wonder what the purpose would be? I wonder why some group would squat in front of a commercial business in a parking space? Is there a purpose? Let&#8217;s see&#8230;there must be a reason. Did the police come to evaluate? Who revokes permits in Spokane? Or maybe the better question is : who would  request/give a permit for a parking spot to be inhabitated by anything but a car/truck.? Or maybe it&#8217;s just something to do on a sunny afternoon. Perhaps someone just wanted to be &#8220;unique&#8221; and be seen? Or somone wanted to copy what&#8217;s done in a different city? Or..or ..or&#8230;I wonder on what grounds the permit was given/revoked? It just seems so odd&#8230; to pick something like this to do&#8230;..maybe it&#8217;s just me&#8230; funny  though&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: John Waite</title>
		<link>http://spovangelist.com/parking-day-post-op/comment-page-1/#comment-7327</link>
		<dc:creator>John Waite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 21:51:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spovangelist.com/?p=748#comment-7327</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the post.  I thought parking day was great.  We had it down in our east main area across from the Rocket without any conplaints.  I guess some people don&#039;t get art, or like anything different, no matter how interesting.  :(

Here is a picture from the east main site - 
www.flickr.com/photos/goribob/3932275134/

John Waite
makegovwork.org</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the post.  I thought parking day was great.  We had it down in our east main area across from the Rocket without any conplaints.  I guess some people don&#8217;t get art, or like anything different, no matter how interesting.  <img src='http://spovangelist.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Here is a picture from the east main site &#8211;<br />
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/goribob/3932275134/" rel="nofollow">http://www.flickr.com/photos/goribob/3932275134/</a></p>
<p>John Waite<br />
makegovwork.org</p>
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