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	<title>Comments on: SpoPo Accountability &#8211; making the best of a protest</title>
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		<title>By: David  Brookbank</title>
		<link>http://spovangelist.com/spopo-accountability-making-the-best-of-a-protest/comment-page-1/#comment-5842</link>
		<dc:creator>David  Brookbank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 07:41:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spovangelist.com/?p=175#comment-5842</guid>
		<description>(Could you substitute this corrected post for the one you just posted for me?  Thank you.)

Great blog.

Thank you for the reference to one of my blogs, Spokane Police Abuses. In addition, I have two other blogs which have some cross over with the subject matter. One is Spokane Hidden Police Cameras. The other is Spokane Racism. I encourage anyone to contact me with suggestions, ideas, corrections and criticisms.

In the meantime, if you are concerned about the use of U.S. police and military powers outside the U.S. — where the attitudes manifested by arrogant power at home manifest themselves in our names against other peoples abroad — please spend sometime over the remaining years of the Obama regime watching how he revitalizes U.S. imperialism in Latin America. We are intimately connected to the peoples of our hemisphere. Our struggles here are important to them and theirs should be important to us. I would suggest the blog UpsideDownWorld, as well as the writings of Eva Golinger about U.S. government subversion and, for Spanish-speakers, TeleSURtv.net

“The strongest bond of human sympathy outside the family relation should be one uniting working people of all nations and tongues and kindreds.” — Abraham Lincoln</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Could you substitute this corrected post for the one you just posted for me?  Thank you.)</p>
<p>Great blog.</p>
<p>Thank you for the reference to one of my blogs, Spokane Police Abuses. In addition, I have two other blogs which have some cross over with the subject matter. One is Spokane Hidden Police Cameras. The other is Spokane Racism. I encourage anyone to contact me with suggestions, ideas, corrections and criticisms.</p>
<p>In the meantime, if you are concerned about the use of U.S. police and military powers outside the U.S. — where the attitudes manifested by arrogant power at home manifest themselves in our names against other peoples abroad — please spend sometime over the remaining years of the Obama regime watching how he revitalizes U.S. imperialism in Latin America. We are intimately connected to the peoples of our hemisphere. Our struggles here are important to them and theirs should be important to us. I would suggest the blog UpsideDownWorld, as well as the writings of Eva Golinger about U.S. government subversion and, for Spanish-speakers, TeleSURtv.net</p>
<p>“The strongest bond of human sympathy outside the family relation should be one uniting working people of all nations and tongues and kindreds.” — Abraham Lincoln</p>
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		<title>By: Dazzeetrader</title>
		<link>http://spovangelist.com/spopo-accountability-making-the-best-of-a-protest/comment-page-1/#comment-5030</link>
		<dc:creator>Dazzeetrader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 21:49:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spovangelist.com/?p=175#comment-5030</guid>
		<description>I might be wrong on this but about 2 years ago, this position of ombudman was conditional AND subject to approval by the police union. IN other words, the city council approved the choice ( or denied the choice), but the candidates would only get to the approval stage if the Police themselves had a &quot;say-so&quot; in the process and the candidate. I don&#039;t know if this has changed. Mariah/anyone... do you know?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I might be wrong on this but about 2 years ago, this position of ombudman was conditional AND subject to approval by the police union. IN other words, the city council approved the choice ( or denied the choice), but the candidates would only get to the approval stage if the Police themselves had a &#8220;say-so&#8221; in the process and the candidate. I don&#8217;t know if this has changed. Mariah/anyone&#8230; do you know?</p>
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		<title>By: The Spovangelist</title>
		<link>http://spovangelist.com/spopo-accountability-making-the-best-of-a-protest/comment-page-1/#comment-4958</link>
		<dc:creator>The Spovangelist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 22:22:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spovangelist.com/?p=175#comment-4958</guid>
		<description>Related follow-up article:

http://www.inlander.com/content/newscommentary_liz_moore_leads_spokane_activism</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Related follow-up article:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.inlander.com/content/newscommentary_liz_moore_leads_spokane_activism" rel="nofollow">http://www.inlander.com/content/newscommentary_liz_moore_leads_spokane_activism</a></p>
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		<title>By: Contrarian</title>
		<link>http://spovangelist.com/spopo-accountability-making-the-best-of-a-protest/comment-page-1/#comment-4631</link>
		<dc:creator>Contrarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 07:53:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spovangelist.com/?p=175#comment-4631</guid>
		<description>&quot;From this it sounds like the Ombudsman can stand on the sidelines and do a lot of hand waving but has no ability to ensure that actions are taken in response to recommendations. In other words, the answer to the question “can the Ombudsman independently initiate investigations?” is NO.&quot;

Sounds about right. An &quot;ombudsman&quot; must be accountable to someone, and if he or she is a City employee, it will be to the Mayor or Council. Don&#039;t expect those worthies to endow a subordinate of theirs with &quot;independent&quot; authority and tools to pursue investigations which could expose the City to liability or complicate their relationships with the police union.

The &quot;ombudsman&quot; solution is no improvement over in-house investigations by Internal Affairs. The City is still investigating itself. If you want investigations that have any chance of being throrough and impartial they must be conducted by someone outside the City apparatus. The Prosecutor&#039;s office has the resources and the expertise. The City could provide a reciprocal service to the County. Then in both jurisdictions allegations of police misconduct would be investigated by agencies with the standing, resources, and independence to do a thorough job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;From this it sounds like the Ombudsman can stand on the sidelines and do a lot of hand waving but has no ability to ensure that actions are taken in response to recommendations. In other words, the answer to the question “can the Ombudsman independently initiate investigations?” is NO.&#8221;</p>
<p>Sounds about right. An &#8220;ombudsman&#8221; must be accountable to someone, and if he or she is a City employee, it will be to the Mayor or Council. Don&#8217;t expect those worthies to endow a subordinate of theirs with &#8220;independent&#8221; authority and tools to pursue investigations which could expose the City to liability or complicate their relationships with the police union.</p>
<p>The &#8220;ombudsman&#8221; solution is no improvement over in-house investigations by Internal Affairs. The City is still investigating itself. If you want investigations that have any chance of being throrough and impartial they must be conducted by someone outside the City apparatus. The Prosecutor&#8217;s office has the resources and the expertise. The City could provide a reciprocal service to the County. Then in both jurisdictions allegations of police misconduct would be investigated by agencies with the standing, resources, and independence to do a thorough job.</p>
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		<title>By: The Spovangelist</title>
		<link>http://spovangelist.com/spopo-accountability-making-the-best-of-a-protest/comment-page-1/#comment-4626</link>
		<dc:creator>The Spovangelist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 04:33:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spovangelist.com/?p=175#comment-4626</guid>
		<description>As a point of conversation, here is the official City stance taken from: 

&quot;A Look at the City of Spokane Police Ombudsman - FACTS and Frequently Asked Questions&quot;

Under the structure that’s been established, the Ombudsman will have the authority to: 

o  Take complaints directly from citizens. 
o  Determine whether investigations of officers are thorough, complete, and fair, and call for additional investigation when warranted. 
o  Recommend mediation between police and a citizen when the ombudsman deems that is the best way to resolve a complaint. 
 
The Ombudsman also can follow trends in policing and recommend best practices and track statistics and provide reports on Police Department performance to the City’s elected leaders.  The City Council approved an ordinance last fall to create the Office of Police Ombudsman, following required negotiations between the City and Police Guild.   
 
Does the Ombudsman have independent authority to initiate an investigation? 

The Police Ombudsman has the authority to attend and observe all aspects of investigations, recommend additional investigation(s), report inadequacies of investigations, and report on and make recommendations regarding any recurring patterns of insufficient or faulty investigations.   
  
In addition, the Ombudsman may receive complaints from any complaining party, including citizens and members of the Police Department. The Ombudsman will forward those complaints to the Police Department Internal Affairs division for processing and investigation, as appropriate.  Meanwhile, the Police Department must notify the Ombudsman of all complaints received and all Internal Affairs investigations. 

----------------------------------
 
From this it sounds like the Ombudsman can stand on the sidelines and do a lot of hand waving but has no ability to ensure that actions are taken in response to recommendations. In other words, the answer to the question &quot;can the Ombudsman independently initiate investigations?&quot; is NO. 

: (</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a point of conversation, here is the official City stance taken from: </p>
<p>&#8220;A Look at the City of Spokane Police Ombudsman &#8211; FACTS and Frequently Asked Questions&#8221;</p>
<p>Under the structure that’s been established, the Ombudsman will have the authority to: </p>
<p>o  Take complaints directly from citizens.<br />
o  Determine whether investigations of officers are thorough, complete, and fair, and call for additional investigation when warranted.<br />
o  Recommend mediation between police and a citizen when the ombudsman deems that is the best way to resolve a complaint. </p>
<p>The Ombudsman also can follow trends in policing and recommend best practices and track statistics and provide reports on Police Department performance to the City’s elected leaders.  The City Council approved an ordinance last fall to create the Office of Police Ombudsman, following required negotiations between the City and Police Guild.   </p>
<p>Does the Ombudsman have independent authority to initiate an investigation? </p>
<p>The Police Ombudsman has the authority to attend and observe all aspects of investigations, recommend additional investigation(s), report inadequacies of investigations, and report on and make recommendations regarding any recurring patterns of insufficient or faulty investigations.   </p>
<p>In addition, the Ombudsman may receive complaints from any complaining party, including citizens and members of the Police Department. The Ombudsman will forward those complaints to the Police Department Internal Affairs division for processing and investigation, as appropriate.  Meanwhile, the Police Department must notify the Ombudsman of all complaints received and all Internal Affairs investigations. </p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-</p>
<p>From this it sounds like the Ombudsman can stand on the sidelines and do a lot of hand waving but has no ability to ensure that actions are taken in response to recommendations. In other words, the answer to the question &#8220;can the Ombudsman independently initiate investigations?&#8221; is NO. </p>
<p>: (</p>
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		<title>By: Contrarian</title>
		<link>http://spovangelist.com/spopo-accountability-making-the-best-of-a-protest/comment-page-1/#comment-4590</link>
		<dc:creator>Contrarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:26:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spovangelist.com/?p=175#comment-4590</guid>
		<description>While police departments certainly require some sort of independent oversight, there are two problems with the &quot;ombudsman&quot; idea. The first is the same problem that besets the police department itself: Who guards the guardians? If the &quot;ombudsman&quot; is independent, to whom is he or she accountable? If to the Mayor or City Council, then it would be a brave ombudsman indeed who would find many valid complaints against the police, since every such determination would expose the City to liability. On the other hand, if the ombudsman is not effectively answerable to City officials, then he will likely be, or become, the creature of such organizations as PJAL and your &quot;Progressive Democrats,&quot; which hold peculiar views regarding the role of police (both actual and ideal) in a just society.

A clue to a better approach might lie in the present scheme for investigating police shootings --- the County investigates City incidents, and the City investigates incidents outside the city. For police oversight the Prosecuting Attorney&#039;s office would assign an ADA, on a rotating basis, to that duty. That attorney would have full power to subpoena city records and would have the resources of the Sheriff&#039;s Department to investigate complaints. If the investigation revealed evidence of a prosecutable offense by the subject officer, he would prosecute. If it revealed only a violation of procedures or grounds for civil liability, he would forward the findings to the Mayor and Council with a recommendation for action. Ultimate responsibility thus would rest with the City&#039;s elected officials, where it belongs. The City Attorney&#039;s office would appoint one of its assistants to investigate complaints from outside the city, with the same powers as the Prosecuting Attorney, who would forward his findings to the County Commissioners.

It is obviously not in the City&#039;s interest to continue to employ abusive, megalomanic, or otherwise unprofessional police officers. But it is difficult to investigate complaints impartially if sustaining a complaint might cost the City a bundle in civil judgments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While police departments certainly require some sort of independent oversight, there are two problems with the &#8220;ombudsman&#8221; idea. The first is the same problem that besets the police department itself: Who guards the guardians? If the &#8220;ombudsman&#8221; is independent, to whom is he or she accountable? If to the Mayor or City Council, then it would be a brave ombudsman indeed who would find many valid complaints against the police, since every such determination would expose the City to liability. On the other hand, if the ombudsman is not effectively answerable to City officials, then he will likely be, or become, the creature of such organizations as PJAL and your &#8220;Progressive Democrats,&#8221; which hold peculiar views regarding the role of police (both actual and ideal) in a just society.</p>
<p>A clue to a better approach might lie in the present scheme for investigating police shootings &#8212; the County investigates City incidents, and the City investigates incidents outside the city. For police oversight the Prosecuting Attorney&#8217;s office would assign an ADA, on a rotating basis, to that duty. That attorney would have full power to subpoena city records and would have the resources of the Sheriff&#8217;s Department to investigate complaints. If the investigation revealed evidence of a prosecutable offense by the subject officer, he would prosecute. If it revealed only a violation of procedures or grounds for civil liability, he would forward the findings to the Mayor and Council with a recommendation for action. Ultimate responsibility thus would rest with the City&#8217;s elected officials, where it belongs. The City Attorney&#8217;s office would appoint one of its assistants to investigate complaints from outside the city, with the same powers as the Prosecuting Attorney, who would forward his findings to the County Commissioners.</p>
<p>It is obviously not in the City&#8217;s interest to continue to employ abusive, megalomanic, or otherwise unprofessional police officers. But it is difficult to investigate complaints impartially if sustaining a complaint might cost the City a bundle in civil judgments.</p>
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		<title>By: Diana</title>
		<link>http://spovangelist.com/spopo-accountability-making-the-best-of-a-protest/comment-page-1/#comment-4570</link>
		<dc:creator>Diana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 20:20:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spovangelist.com/?p=175#comment-4570</guid>
		<description>How long will it take and how many more people must die or get traumatized unneccessarily as the result of police officers who get out of hand?  I wish there was a faster way of getting this resolved.  My son had a near death experience and the officer was committing crimes.  It leaves me feeling real apprehensive about the Spokane Police and police in general.  They need to have education on how to conduct themselves.  If they have spent years on force then they need to be evaluated phsychologically as it must be a traumatic job.  That is no excuse for breaking the law and going out of bounds and harming people like my son, Shonto Pete and the late Otto Zehm and others...It hurts whole families.  Don&#039;t they know?  Why can&#039;t they see?  I know there must be good officers out there who follow the law while protecting citizens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How long will it take and how many more people must die or get traumatized unneccessarily as the result of police officers who get out of hand?  I wish there was a faster way of getting this resolved.  My son had a near death experience and the officer was committing crimes.  It leaves me feeling real apprehensive about the Spokane Police and police in general.  They need to have education on how to conduct themselves.  If they have spent years on force then they need to be evaluated phsychologically as it must be a traumatic job.  That is no excuse for breaking the law and going out of bounds and harming people like my son, Shonto Pete and the late Otto Zehm and others&#8230;It hurts whole families.  Don&#8217;t they know?  Why can&#8217;t they see?  I know there must be good officers out there who follow the law while protecting citizens.</p>
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		<title>By: aloafofbread</title>
		<link>http://spovangelist.com/spopo-accountability-making-the-best-of-a-protest/comment-page-1/#comment-4569</link>
		<dc:creator>aloafofbread</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 20:10:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spovangelist.com/?p=175#comment-4569</guid>
		<description>Great piece! 

It seems so comprehensive. I like the protest checklist a lot. It&#039;s good to hear that it seems like a well-organized and warranted event. 

Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great piece! </p>
<p>It seems so comprehensive. I like the protest checklist a lot. It&#8217;s good to hear that it seems like a well-organized and warranted event. </p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: anna</title>
		<link>http://spovangelist.com/spopo-accountability-making-the-best-of-a-protest/comment-page-1/#comment-4566</link>
		<dc:creator>anna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 18:45:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spovangelist.com/?p=175#comment-4566</guid>
		<description>thanks Mariah - the article &amp; links were informative and troubling, to say the least.  I was absolutely shocked at the number of deaths/murders by police.  one is too many...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks Mariah &#8211; the article &amp; links were informative and troubling, to say the least.  I was absolutely shocked at the number of deaths/murders by police.  one is too many&#8230;</p>
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